4 1/2 year-old 11-point
5 1/2 year-old 9-point
5 1/2 year-old 8-point
Nothing huge this year
Nothing huge this year
Didn't have any huge bucks on my place this year, but we did have a couple of nice mature bucks.
4 1/2 year-old 11-point
5 1/2 year-old 9-point
5 1/2 year-old 8-point
4 1/2 year-old 11-point
5 1/2 year-old 9-point
5 1/2 year-old 8-point
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Fullthrottle
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Nothing huge this year
Well if those are just your nice bucks. I would love to see your huge ones cause they have to be monsters.
Awesome pics
Awesome pics
Re: Nothing huge this year
Over the years, we've been lucky to attract some very nice bucks to our property:
Last edited by BSK on Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Morris
- "Why is that damn dumpster beeping"
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Re: Nothing huge this year
Needs a few more years
Re: Nothing huge this year
BE SOME GOOD UNS' NEXT YEARMorris wrote:Needs a few more years
Triple Toe Assassins, Where Pellets Meet Peckers
"A turkey's brain development exceeds that of nearly all vice-presidents." - TOM KELLY
The bird possesses a remarkable ability to turn arrogance into hopelessness. - TOM KELLY
"A turkey's brain development exceeds that of nearly all vice-presidents." - TOM KELLY
The bird possesses a remarkable ability to turn arrogance into hopelessness. - TOM KELLY
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Bustinbeards
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Re: Nothing huge this year
BSK, what do you find to be the most effective way of getting bucks on camera? Fields,trails,feeding in the woods,feeding stations,salt licks?
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Fullthrottle
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Re: Nothing huge this year
Very nice
Re: Nothing huge this year
Scrapes. Unquestionably scrapes.Bustinbeards wrote:BSK, what do you find to be the most effective way of getting bucks on camera? Fields,trails,feeding in the woods,feeding stations,salt licks?
From the beginning of August through December, the vast majority of my business is running season-long unbaited camera censuses or analyzing trail-camera data (the client runs the cameras, and I just analyze all the pictures and run the numbers). I looked at over 380,000 trail-camera pictures this year alone. THE best way to collect an inventory of the bucks using a given property is to run cameras over scrapes for at least the 6 weeks surrounding the peak of breeding, and longer if you can. I generally can start getting good scrape pictures about a month before peak breeding and will still be getting some decent scrape pictures through at least a month after peak breeding.
But I do use and train clients to use a couple of simple rules for placing and checking cameras. 1) Only use true black-flash cameras. Red-glow and white-flask cameras can cause bucks to stop visiting a camera-monitored scrape; 2) Only place cameras where you can drive right up to them on an ATV or reach them from a truck window. Walking to cameras is a no-no; and 3) If you check cameras via an ATV, wear a cheap, slick-plastic or other easily washable, no-stick material rain suit. You don't want scent from your clothes rubbing off on any grass, brush, or low-hanging tree branches that touch you as you drive past. By following these rules, I have no problem keeping the most hunter-wary bucks using the same scrapes all rut-season.
Re: Nothing huge this year
HA! Always love that comment! :DMorris wrote:Needs a few more years
Re: Nothing huge this year
How much land do you manage for yourself BSK? What are some of the most important things you feel keeps the older bucks on it?
Re: Nothing huge this year
My personal property is 500 acres. And for properties of under 1,000 acres, I'm convinced THE most important factor for holding older and especially mature bucks during hunting season is good cover, and not only that but sanctuary. Once the guns start going off, older to mature bucks will gravitate towards areas where they feel safer from hunting pressure. The trick habitat management-wise is producing sanctuary that isn't TOO much sanctuary. It has to be enough to give bucks a feeling of safety, but not so much that they never need to come out of that sanctuary during daylight. Basically, enough sanctuary to give bucks a FALSE sense of security.bowtarist wrote:How much land do you manage for yourself BSK? What are some of the most important things you feel keeps the older bucks on it?
Re: Nothing huge this year
BSK, first off it's good to see ya back! I look forward to seeing the info you provide!
On that 500 acres, you were talking about not having any BIG bucks on it. Do you feel like there weren't any that visited? Are you that confident in your survey? And how many cameras do you have on it? Thanks!!
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On that 500 acres, you were talking about not having any BIG bucks on it. Do you feel like there weren't any that visited? Are you that confident in your survey? And how many cameras do you have on it? Thanks!!
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Re: Nothing huge this year
We didn't have any really big (as in high-scoring) bucks on it this year, although we usually do. Although we did have 4 mature (4 1/2+) bucks, which is quite good.Johnal3 wrote:BSK, first off it's good to see ya back! I look forward to seeing the info you provide!
On that 500 acres, you were talking about not having any BIG bucks on it. Do you feel like there weren't any that visited? Are you that confident in your survey? And how many cameras do you have on it? Thanks!!
I generally run 7 cameras during the season for my unbaited census.
Yes, I'm VERY confident of the census' accuracy. A modified version of capture-recapture statistics, collected over 17 years, strongly suggests we get >95% of bucks using the property on camera each year.
Re: Nothing huge this year
Do you pick up many transient bucks?
It is very common for me to pick up several mature bucks every year that just show up for a few days...maybe weeks....and then disappear. They are often quite photogenic while they are around and move a lot in the daytime. I have had some stay......but, most just move on and may be months, if ever, before being seen again.
It is very common for me to pick up several mature bucks every year that just show up for a few days...maybe weeks....and then disappear. They are often quite photogenic while they are around and move a lot in the daytime. I have had some stay......but, most just move on and may be months, if ever, before being seen again.
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Turkey_neck
- Has anyone heard my briefcase?
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- Location: Chilton county
Re: Nothing huge this year
I'm with you Danny. I only have 40 acres at the house and only run two cams in season one where I feed them and one on my best field. Normally I have a certain group of bucks that stay here at the house early season then some leave and new come in pre rut. Rut and post rut is mostly deer I've never had on camera with a few of the regulars showing up. It's crazy how many different bucks I'll get on camera in a season but only a few stay year to year.
I would walk over a naked woman to get to a gobbling turkey. Ben Rodgers lee
Re: Nothing huge this year
Hogwild and Turkey_neck,
That's a huge topic that requires a book-length response! But first a couple of points that are critical to remember when discussing what will be seen on camera on a given property over the course of the summer through pre-rut, rut, and post-rut:
1) Individual bucks within a given population are so unique in their behaviors and movement patterns that trying to give an "average" is meaningless. An average can be calculated, but few if any bucks actually follow an average behavior scheme, even when looking at bucks of the same age in the same habitat. One may be covering 50 acres per year and another 20,000 acres.
2) Deer are incredibly adaptive creatures. They rapidly adapt to their local environment, and often display very different behaviors from one environment to another, even if those different environments are geographically close together.
3) Many bucks have seasonal ranges. All of these different seasonal ranges fall into their annual range, but these seasonal ranges may have no overlap between them. This means they may have a summer range that is in a completely different location than their fall range, or their winter range, or even a temporary rut range. Quite often, these seasonal ranges are traditional, in that an individual buck comes back to the same summer range each year, but annually leaves and goes to his traditional fall range as the seasons progress.
4) Individual bucks can have large ranges, meaning they cross many individual properties. And this problem is exacerbated by the rut, as the influence of the rut can cause bucks to greatly increase the size of their range. This takes them across even more properties for a short period each year (4-8 weeks).
5) Every property is a unique situation. Because of the way the property's habitat and terrain are laid out, and especially because of the way the habitat and terrain on all surrounding properties are laid out, no two individual properties are going to see the exact same pattern in buck habitation. Eventually, everything possible will be seen when comparing season-long camera censuses between properties.
Considering all of the above, I have seen a few examples of properties that see very little seasonal movement of bucks. In essence, the bucks they have in the summer are the bucks they have to hunt in the fall and through the rut. The may have a few new bucks show up during the rut as bucks from neighboring areas temporarily expand their range into the property, but the majority of "huntable bucks" (bucks using the property during hunting season) are year-round residents. However, this type of situation is in the minority. MOST properties see a significant amount of seasonal shifting of unique bucks on and off the property through the seasons.
In the area where I conduct most of my research (west-central TN), three primary shifts in buck range occur surrounding deer season. The first is the shift away from their summertime bachelor group range and to their individual fall range. This shift usually occurs right at antler velvet shedding time. What this produces for the person running a localized camera census is bucks they've been watch on camera all summer sudden vanish. Often these bucks do not appear on camera again until the following summer. In addition, "new" bucks never photographed during summer suddenly appear on the property. These bucks then hang around through the hunting season and are "huntable bucks." I call these bucks "fall range-shifters," as their fall range is different than their summer range. The second major shift in bucks ranges occurs around the rut. Most bucks dramatically increase the size of their range during the rut bringing them across properties they only visit during this 4-8 week period. I call these bucks "rut expanders" as they are expanding their range. In addition, some bucks literally pick up and move somewhere completely different during the rut. I call these bucks "rut-shifters" because they are literally shifting their range to a new location for the rut. But what these rut expanders and shifters mean to the person running a local camera census is a sudden influx of a considerable number of "new" bucks on camera. However, these bucks are usually just temporary visitors, as they will be captured on camera for only 4 to 8 weeks around the peak of breeding, after which they vanish post-rut.
So adding together the fall range-shifters, the rut-shifters, and the rut expander bucks and a local season-long photo-census on a single property can see a lot of transience from summer through post rut. Again, I have seen a very few properties where their is little transience through this period. However, that is not the norm. The norm is for considerable transience. And some properties see extreme transience. I've seen small properties that have a considerable population of bucks in the summer while having few bucks during the hunting season. And I've seen the opposite where a property has few bucks in summer but is crawling with bucks in fall. But most properties are somewhere between those two extremes. On my personal property, with 17 years of season-long camera census data, of the population of huntable bucks (those on the property during hunting season) approximately only a third are summer residents. Fall range-shifters make up another third of the huntable population. The final third is made up of rut range shifters and expanders. And it is rather interesting to see how even the range shifters and expanders do so fairly traditionally. I will actually see the same buck suddenly appear on camera on almost the same date each year. With a peak breeding period on my property of around Nov. 10-19, I actually had one buck first appear on camera on Halloween night for three consecutive years. Now that doesn't mean all of these shifts and expansions are traditional. I unquestionably get older and even mature bucks that show up for just one year, never seen before or after. But it is interesting to watch those traditional movement from year to year.
That's a huge topic that requires a book-length response! But first a couple of points that are critical to remember when discussing what will be seen on camera on a given property over the course of the summer through pre-rut, rut, and post-rut:
1) Individual bucks within a given population are so unique in their behaviors and movement patterns that trying to give an "average" is meaningless. An average can be calculated, but few if any bucks actually follow an average behavior scheme, even when looking at bucks of the same age in the same habitat. One may be covering 50 acres per year and another 20,000 acres.
2) Deer are incredibly adaptive creatures. They rapidly adapt to their local environment, and often display very different behaviors from one environment to another, even if those different environments are geographically close together.
3) Many bucks have seasonal ranges. All of these different seasonal ranges fall into their annual range, but these seasonal ranges may have no overlap between them. This means they may have a summer range that is in a completely different location than their fall range, or their winter range, or even a temporary rut range. Quite often, these seasonal ranges are traditional, in that an individual buck comes back to the same summer range each year, but annually leaves and goes to his traditional fall range as the seasons progress.
4) Individual bucks can have large ranges, meaning they cross many individual properties. And this problem is exacerbated by the rut, as the influence of the rut can cause bucks to greatly increase the size of their range. This takes them across even more properties for a short period each year (4-8 weeks).
5) Every property is a unique situation. Because of the way the property's habitat and terrain are laid out, and especially because of the way the habitat and terrain on all surrounding properties are laid out, no two individual properties are going to see the exact same pattern in buck habitation. Eventually, everything possible will be seen when comparing season-long camera censuses between properties.
Considering all of the above, I have seen a few examples of properties that see very little seasonal movement of bucks. In essence, the bucks they have in the summer are the bucks they have to hunt in the fall and through the rut. The may have a few new bucks show up during the rut as bucks from neighboring areas temporarily expand their range into the property, but the majority of "huntable bucks" (bucks using the property during hunting season) are year-round residents. However, this type of situation is in the minority. MOST properties see a significant amount of seasonal shifting of unique bucks on and off the property through the seasons.
In the area where I conduct most of my research (west-central TN), three primary shifts in buck range occur surrounding deer season. The first is the shift away from their summertime bachelor group range and to their individual fall range. This shift usually occurs right at antler velvet shedding time. What this produces for the person running a localized camera census is bucks they've been watch on camera all summer sudden vanish. Often these bucks do not appear on camera again until the following summer. In addition, "new" bucks never photographed during summer suddenly appear on the property. These bucks then hang around through the hunting season and are "huntable bucks." I call these bucks "fall range-shifters," as their fall range is different than their summer range. The second major shift in bucks ranges occurs around the rut. Most bucks dramatically increase the size of their range during the rut bringing them across properties they only visit during this 4-8 week period. I call these bucks "rut expanders" as they are expanding their range. In addition, some bucks literally pick up and move somewhere completely different during the rut. I call these bucks "rut-shifters" because they are literally shifting their range to a new location for the rut. But what these rut expanders and shifters mean to the person running a local camera census is a sudden influx of a considerable number of "new" bucks on camera. However, these bucks are usually just temporary visitors, as they will be captured on camera for only 4 to 8 weeks around the peak of breeding, after which they vanish post-rut.
So adding together the fall range-shifters, the rut-shifters, and the rut expander bucks and a local season-long photo-census on a single property can see a lot of transience from summer through post rut. Again, I have seen a very few properties where their is little transience through this period. However, that is not the norm. The norm is for considerable transience. And some properties see extreme transience. I've seen small properties that have a considerable population of bucks in the summer while having few bucks during the hunting season. And I've seen the opposite where a property has few bucks in summer but is crawling with bucks in fall. But most properties are somewhere between those two extremes. On my personal property, with 17 years of season-long camera census data, of the population of huntable bucks (those on the property during hunting season) approximately only a third are summer residents. Fall range-shifters make up another third of the huntable population. The final third is made up of rut range shifters and expanders. And it is rather interesting to see how even the range shifters and expanders do so fairly traditionally. I will actually see the same buck suddenly appear on camera on almost the same date each year. With a peak breeding period on my property of around Nov. 10-19, I actually had one buck first appear on camera on Halloween night for three consecutive years. Now that doesn't mean all of these shifts and expansions are traditional. I unquestionably get older and even mature bucks that show up for just one year, never seen before or after. But it is interesting to watch those traditional movement from year to year.
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Turkey_neck
- Has anyone heard my briefcase?
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Re: Nothing huge this year
That's interesting you brought that up. The deer in my trailcam post "this deer is driving me crazy" is that way. I didn't start running cameras till a week or two before the rut last year and that deer was there. He stayed till the rut was almost over then left to not be seen again. This year I had cameras out almost from July and he never showed up. Then suddenly about the time he disappeared last year he showed up this year.
I would walk over a naked woman to get to a gobbling turkey. Ben Rodgers lee
Re: Nothing huge this year
Turjey_neck,
I see a huge amount of variation in 2 1/2 year-olds bucks. Many 2 1/2 year-olds that suddenly appear out of nowhere--even if they stay for the whole hunting season--are never seen again. But if I get a 3 1/2 year-old buck on the place during hunting season, odds are very high he will keep coming back year after year for the rest of his life. Why this is, I have no idea. And if I get a 4 1/2 on camera during the season, odds are extremely high I'll see him in following years, even if he only shows up for the rut each year. The 5 1/2 I killed this year was that way. He first showed up as a 4 1/2 year-old only for the rut last year, and he didn't show up this year until just before peak breeding. I killed him just a few days after he showed up this year as he was hot after a doe.
I see a huge amount of variation in 2 1/2 year-olds bucks. Many 2 1/2 year-olds that suddenly appear out of nowhere--even if they stay for the whole hunting season--are never seen again. But if I get a 3 1/2 year-old buck on the place during hunting season, odds are very high he will keep coming back year after year for the rest of his life. Why this is, I have no idea. And if I get a 4 1/2 on camera during the season, odds are extremely high I'll see him in following years, even if he only shows up for the rut each year. The 5 1/2 I killed this year was that way. He first showed up as a 4 1/2 year-old only for the rut last year, and he didn't show up this year until just before peak breeding. I killed him just a few days after he showed up this year as he was hot after a doe.
Re: Nothing huge this year
Those are some fine deer.
Re: Nothing huge this year
That's good info BSK. Thanks. I lease/hunt 700 acres and only wish I could feel like I had 95% of our bucks on camera. We have about 600 acres of 10 year old pine thicket that deer rarely have to leave (IMO) and it makes it tough for camera surveys and hunting unless we run them on fields, which I don't like to do because of pressure. I'm hoping we can keep it long enough for the pines to be thinned and actually huntable.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: Nothing huge this year
Dealing with huge sanctuaries like that, from both a camera census and hunting perspective, can be VERY difficult.Johnal3 wrote:We have about 600 acres of 10 year old pine thicket that deer rarely have to leave (IMO) and it makes it tough for camera surveys and hunting unless we run them on fields, which I don't like to do because of pressure.